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| Maybe I'm the first to say I'm not thrilled... :( |
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Message envoyé à02/16/2006, 09:44:36 AM par Joegough |
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| Envoyé originalement par Wysiwygfoto: |
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Message quoté: If you want to leave DT altogether, nothing is stopping you from doing that. From what I read, if you upload an image, and continue to have a sales account here, then the expectation is that you'll keep that image here for at least 12 months and that DT will market that image. If you decide to leave the agency and go exclusive elsewhere, then no harm, no foul, - send a letter to support and close out your account.
I see absolutely no intention here on the part of DT to restrict its contributors to the agency (unless you make the committment to become exclusive here). |
That's not how I understand it to be. If you have an image accepted after 15th March then that image must remain available for the next 12 months __ so you would not be able to go exclusive anywhere else within that time period. Every time you upload another image then the 12 months begins again. This obviously needs clarified. |
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Canon 1Ds MkIII (from Jan 2008), 5D, 20D & 10D.
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Message envoyé à02/16/2006, 09:46:31 AM par Pufferfishy |
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| Envoyé originalement par Achilles: |
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| Message quoté: To this policy there are exceptions to be applied. If someone will buy full rights from you, then the file can be disabled at any time. If you have other issues about it, the file can be disabled at any time. This cannot apply on a portfolio-scale though. |
So, we can write in to DT and request for removal of the images that we've sold full rights to someone else?
In my honest opinion, nobody wants to be 'tied-down' especially when it concerns their 'property', in this case, images that they wholly hold copyrights to, so you can imagine this will push people away.
I'm very active in other sites too, and none dares to put such rules on the members. However, members are given an option to choose to go exclusive or normal member on their own accord.
Dreamstime... My plea is please do not "tie" us down this way. I understand the problem/reasoning given by Achilles. I suggest, instead of immediate "Disable" function, maybe get members to write-in with reason for disabling their images. Then, DT should review the reason before disable the images.
One year is too long in my opinion. How about 2 months?
Just my 2 cents worth... |
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Canon Ixus 400, 500 & 700, Canon G7, Canon EOS 350D & 30D.
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Message envoyé à02/16/2006, 09:56:48 AM par Stuartkey |
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I'm fairly sure this point has been covered previously, and it is as Eendicott stated (i think).
An image uploaded after March 15 must stay online at DT for 12 months. It is NOT exclusive to DT, unless you choose to make it so.
IF you subsequently go exclusive at a different agency, then you can write to support and have all relevant images removed.
As I understand it.
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Message modifié à 02/16/2006, 10:10:18 AM par Wysiwygfoto |
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| Envoyé originalement par Pufferfishy: |
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| Message quoté: [quote]I'm very active in other sites too, and none dares to put such rules on the members. However, members are given an option to choose to go exclusive or normal member on their own accord. |
I know of one site that had a promotion where they would give you a bonus if you committed to leaving images there for 12 months.
I know of another site that in their Terms of Service they state "Once uploaded and approved, you cannot re-claim the photo from being used, and you cannot remove the photo from ********* site for at least 90 days." A reminder of this is acknowledged before every upload.
There is another site that recently announced retention of photos so the buyer can elect to receive them at a later date.
Hate to say it Pufferfishy but you contribute to these sites!
As a buyer, if I offered to buy a photo outright, and I know it had previously been sold Royalty Free - I would be concerned in that the photo in question can show up again anytime, anywhere based on the previous purchaser's agreement with an agency even if I am purchasing the copyrights from a photographer. Again, I have to ask, how many times has this happened to you and how relevent is it to your portfolio?
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Message modifié à 02/16/2006, 10:17:59 AM par Lisafx |
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| Envoyé originalement par Wysiwygfoto: |
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Message quoté:
I know of one site that had a promotion where they would give you a bonus if you committed to leaving images there for 12 months.
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I for one would never have accepted that bonus and those terms. I'm not even on that site because of some of the ways they deal with their contributors
"I know of another site that in their Terms of Service they state "Once uploaded and approved, you cannot re-claim the photo from being used, and you cannot remove the photo from ********* site for at least 90 days." A reminder of this is acknowledged before every upload."
A number of us have stated in this thread that we would be willing to accept 90 days, but not 12 months.
"There is another site that recently announced retention of photos so the buyer can elect to receive them at a later date."
Fortunately, that was a misunderstanding and was straightened out.
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Canon 5D, 40D, Various lenses, flashes, studio lights, light...
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Message envoyé à02/16/2006, 10:40:09 AM par Erinhula |
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| Envoyé originalement par Stuartkey: |
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Message quoté:
IF you subsequently go exclusive at a different agency, then you can write to support and have all relevant images removed.
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But Achilles' post (on page 1 here) says
" ....If you have other issues about it, the file can be disabled at any time. This cannot apply on a portfolio-scale though..."
That seems to me to be a clear statement that you could not ask to have all your images (ie, "on a portfolio-scale") removed should you want to become exclusive elsewhere.
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Message envoyé à02/16/2006, 10:59:41 AM par Elenaray |
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I'm not thrilled about this one year commitment either... |
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1 mind, 2 eyes and a heart....
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Message envoyé à02/16/2006, 11:13:41 AM par Franziskalang |
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I agree that 90 days would be much more reasonable. |
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Nikon D100, Tamron SP AF 27-75mm f/2.8 XR Di, Tamron SP AF 2...
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Message envoyé à02/16/2006, 11:17:40 AM par Dirtypainter |
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Wow I am amazed at some of this.
We are all here to make money. And this is why some people upload to other sites, to spread themselves out for more exposure, and to make more money from the same image.
Then to find fault with DT when they want a commitment from us. When in reality this whole time they have been commited to us in helping us make money. |
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Canon Rebel XT, Canon 40D, Kodak Z740, EFS 18-55mm, Tamron 2...
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Message envoyé à02/16/2006, 11:24:19 AM par Nantela |
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If you're selling my images for $100, then I can understand the 12 month commitment. If you're selling it for $1-3 then 3 months is the maximum you'll get from me.
Anyone who can accurately predict one year's worth of developments in an internet-based industy would be stinking rich by now.
Andre |
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Message envoyé à02/16/2006, 11:29:45 AM par Kiyyah |
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I'm very concerned about this committment also. |
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Message envoyé à02/16/2006, 11:40:33 AM par Sdphoto |
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I would like to explain my decision based upon my understanding of this "business". I see the sales site (Dreamstime) and the contributor as a symbiotic relationship. I need a host and they need me. Without my contributions (and thousands from people just like me) the host doesn't exist in it's present form. This is why I don't personally feel that Dreamstime should require some type of long term commitment from the contributor (which makes me feel as if my hands are tied). We the contributors are responsible for the growth of the collection. If Dreamstime can continue to grow it's library without contributors who agree with me, then I wish them all the success. |
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Message envoyé à02/16/2006, 11:47:22 AM par Wysiwygfoto |
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| Envoyé originalement par Sdphoto: |
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| Message quoté: I would like to explain my decision based upon my understanding of this "business". I see the sales site (Dreamstime) and the contributor as a symbiotic relationship. I need a host and they need me. Without my contributions (and thousands from people just like me) the host doesn't exist in it's present form. This is why I don't personally feel that Dreamstime should require some type of long term commitment from the contributor (which makes me feel as if my hands are tied). We the contributors are responsible for the growth of the collection. If Dreamstime can continue to grow it's library without contributors who agree with me, then I wish them all the success. |
One other thing you have to factor in is this is a very competitive industry. For every person that chooses to leave - there are at least 2 wanting to get in. Since you are already here, you have an advantage over those two - you know ropes here and they don't. To make the statement that DT will not grow if you as an individual pulled your images would be insane - there are over 4,000 contributors and that's growing. Keep that in mind when you make your decision. |
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Message modifié à 02/16/2006, 12:06:33 PM par Franziskalang |
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Of course I cannot speak for the other posters in this thread, but I am sure I am not alone in not intending to remove my uploads after three months (if that was the agreed upon timeframe). I just want that option to remove them if I feel the need to.
Just as DT has the option to cancel my account should they feel the need to (which I hope they never will 'cause I like it here :). |
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Nikon D100, Tamron SP AF 27-75mm f/2.8 XR Di, Tamron SP AF 2...
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Message envoyé à02/16/2006, 12:02:01 PM par Joegough |
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| Envoyé originalement par Wysiwygfoto: |
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Message quoté:
One other thing you have to factor in is this is a very competitive industry. For every person that chooses to leave - there are at least 2 wanting to get in. Since you are already here, you have an advantage over those two - you know ropes here and they don't. To make the statement that DT will not grow if you as an individual pulled your images would be insane - there are over 4,000 contributors and that's growing. Keep that in mind when you make your decision. |
There may be 4000 contributors in total but if you check the portfolios of the top 40 contributors you will find that they own 25% of the entire image library between them __ and they are almost certainly responsible for an even higher % of image sales.
Almost all of these are people who treat their stock seriously, having invested hugely in time and equipment, and contribute to multiple sites to maximise income. |
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Canon 1Ds MkIII (from Jan 2008), 5D, 20D & 10D.
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Message envoyé à02/16/2006, 12:16:02 PM par Lisafx |
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| Envoyé originalement par Dirtypainter: |
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Message quoté: Wow I am amazed at some of this.
Then to find fault with DT when they want a commitment from us. When in reality this whole time they have been commited to us in helping us make money. |
I don't hear anyone finding fault with Dreamstime at all.
I completely understand their desire to have a 12 month commitment from contributors. If I were them, I would feel the same way. However, as a contributor, this is a much longer period of time than I would be comfortable commiting to.
They were kind enough to lay out their plans in advance and as site members, we are discussing the ideas and giving them feedback.
No criticism implied, at least on my end. Hopefully no one is criticizing the photographers who feel like we can't make that commitment either.
This is a friendly discussion and it should stay that way :-) |
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Canon 5D, 40D, Various lenses, flashes, studio lights, light...
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Message envoyé à02/16/2006, 12:17:03 PM par Bennym |
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Union-Union-Union.... raising his fist in the air...
Most sites have a 90 day requirement.....
As I see it... there are good points on both sides of the issue...
The question now is... can we come together as a community to put something in place that will satisfy both side ???? |
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Currently shooting Digital only.
I have switched over to th...
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Message envoyé à02/16/2006, 12:19:42 PM par Damir00 |
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The root concern here is not about DT's 12-month plan forcing psuedo-exclusivity on DT contributors - the concern is that DT's plan will force people to abandon other microstocks.
It is not only possible, but quite likely that Getty...er...********...will insist on some kind of exclusivity in the near future. That means anybody contributing to both IS and DT will be forced to give up on IS until DT's 12-month requirement is met. And as has been pointed out, that 12 month period doesn't begin the day of your first submissision - it begins the day of your *most*recent* submissions when dealing with the exclusivity issue.
That is very very not cool.
Again, it's not about exclusivity on DT, it's about the exclusivity policies that may change elsewhere forcing people off of other microstocks. I totally understand why DT would want to do this - I trust DT also understands why so many find it unacceptable.
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A large wooden box with a tiny little hole.
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Message envoyé à02/16/2006, 12:44:20 PM par Disorderly |
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I'm not quite so concerned about another site demanding exclusivity and having to give up on them because of a one year DT commitment. It could happen, but I have doubts that it will. My concern is with the one-sided nature of this commitment. What exactly is DT committing to? Will it guarantee not to lower prices or payouts during that term? Will it guarantee not to offer free images (like another site did) in competition with our work? Will it guarantee a level of marketing activity to draw in buyers? Will it guarantee not to be acquired by another firm who might change the contract terms?
My point is that the commitment is all on our side. Given the low cost of images, I don't buy the argument that clients need images to remain on the site for a year. It makes sense when images sell for hundreds of dollars, although the one high priced agency I deal with has a six month requirement. If the problem is really submitters who delete images after a few days, or even a month, then two months ought to be enough. I personally would even accept three, as I do at another micro.
I too will consider curtailing further uploads after March 15th. |
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Nikon D300, Canon G9, Olympus C-7070WZ
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Message envoyé à02/16/2006, 12:46:01 PM par Sophieso |
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| Envoyé originalement par Bennym: |
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Message quoté: Union-Union-Union.... raising his fist in the air...
Most sites have a 90 day requirement.....
As I see it... there are good points on both sides of the issue...
The question now is... can we come together as a community to put something in place that will satisfy both side ???? |
Ben, I love ya:-)
So far this is a good discussion. It's great to see that the majority of the changes are clear and have been understood and that people are working through their options and choices.
But I'm going to ask that everybody show respect when talking to and about the designers who use this site. As photographers we know our business, and it is rude to assume we know the business of those who put money in our pockets. The code of conduct on Dreamstime is very clear--no flaming, foul language, or disrespect to other members. I'd like to extend apologies to the designers who have been kind enough to visit this forum and give us their input. We all appreciate hearing from you.
I am also going to ask that other agencies not be discussed by name in this discussion. Thank you. |
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